Dr. DonG.'s Deafhood Discourses - Latest Comments in Beware of False Prophets!

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Raphael J. St. Johns — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:02:14 -0000

Thank you to post #59...it's really too bad that she (Mishka Zena) has back herslef into a corner..where she has lost alot of creditability.

I feel for her....she is,appearently, so blinded by her position..that she has gone against a lot of her own policies ( accusing us of censorship, while she practices censorships on her blog, for example).

I have been told by many crimminal lawyers that warrents are needed for any form of communications: e-mails, im meassages, phone records.

The expectations of privacy are there. Despite what Mishkazena Zena
said.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:02:49 -0000

Raphael J. St. Johns is correct and Mishkazena is wrong.

Business meetings are confidential. The only exception is for
government agencies, and even some business meetings of
government agencies are confidential, too.

Mishkazena is getting way out of her league, and has lost credibility.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Raphael J. St. Johns — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:59:00 -0000

Why don't you read and re-read the many postings that have said THE SAME THINGS THAT I AM SAYING? ARE WE ALL WRONG?

You have hurt your creditabilty. And each day that passes when you continue to deny the truth, your creditabily sinks to a new low, Elizabeth.

Every day,I get hundreds of e-mail saying the exact same things
that I have been saying for the past 2 weeks.

Why don't you wake up...and see the self destructive path you are on?

Just to give you ONE of the many posts that keeps trying to say to you that you are on the wrong path:
On this blog-

anonymouse said,
July 18, 2008 @ 4:08 pm

MishkaZena,
I believe you have a good heart and good intentions. But you seem to have difficulty hearing what people are trying to tell you.

You keep reiterating the same points over and over, when these points have been addressed. What many people have a problem with is how those concerns were raised. At least one ex-core member was very destructive in how he aired those concerns. You, while you have remained very civil and offered a more balanced view, have allowed others to perform verbal violence on others on your blogsite.

It’s not about oppression of dissent. It is about objecting to toxic individuals and their destructive behavior…. and those who enable such behavior.

Please attempt to understand this. Thank you.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Raphael J. St. Johns — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:15:42 -0000

One more thing:

"I deleted your comments only because the flame war was continuing, despite my requests to stop the flaming war and address to the topic. Not only you, but the other two ignored my repeated requests to cease therefore I had to put my blog into a moderation mode.

To get the record straight-

My responses was not inflamming words. I was only repsonding to that crazzy man....and my words were not baiting, scaisms words. I was respectful.

You either have/had a hidden agenda, or is caught up in this so heavily that you can't see the daylight.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Raphael J. St. Johns — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:07:21 -0000

And it is interesting to me that you have not repsonded (directly or otherwise) to my post about "“I won’t stopped until they (the DBC leadership) apologized to me -Dr. H.

It sounds like sour grapes…because it is sour grapes."

YOu did allowed this vindictive man to use you.

Silly me, Elizabeth, I thought it was your blog.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Raphael J. St. Johns — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:00:42 -0000

Oh right...hummmm...let me get this straight...you deleted my comments...and yet you say you are the defenders of free speech...and yet you allowed the one person who started and continues to this day to make off the wall statements...inflaming the community ...hummmmmmmmm…some strange logic you have.

Im’s messages are NOT PRIVATE?

Wow...gee…I am sure that is news to millions of people worldwide (deaf and hearing a like). And to the Federal government, who HAD to, in the past to get a Federal Judge to issue a warrant to received a private IM conversation.

YOU STILL DON’T GET IT…. WE ARE SCAREAMING AT YOU ….TELLING YOU THAT YOU ARE WRONG ON THIS ONE….. ARE YOU REALLY SO NERROWMINDED?

Gee …Elizabeth,…You are in the sandbox.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Mishkazena — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:56:55 -0000

I deleted your comments only because the flame war was continuing, despite my requests to stop the flaming war and address to the topic. Not only you, but the other two ignored my repeated requests to cease therefore I had to put my blog into a moderation mode.

I allow comments in my blog, whether I agree with them or not. Even at my expense, when others bash me. I don't practice double standards, blocking some commenters because I don't like their comments while allowing others to, like some other bloggers and vloggers do. I don't operate that way. Everybody is entitled to their expressions, favorable and unfavorable.

About the loss of my 'credibility', apparently it is from people who don't want to hear both sides, preferring only one side. I've received a lot of support from the Deaf Community, including leaders.

I stand for the truth and will not stoop to deliberate deception or manipulation of Deaf Community. If you don't like it, then what can I say?

Again that AIM is a BUSINESS meeting, not a private personal chat between friends. You didn't address my reference to Dr Fernandes' e mail nor the e mails between Schwartz and Levinson where Levinson expressed his audism incurring no public outcry about the publications. However, because it is an organization we all support, I am criticized for asking for transparency and facts.

I see it that people want me to practice double-standard and report only the favorable, never the unfavorable, never mind that there's partial transparency. Sorry.. this is not my style. Just because I cover both doesn't mean I want to destroy organizations. This oppressive atmosphere of the Deaf Community I am seeing now saddens me. I see that Deaf Community promotes repression of deaf empowered people, even people on their side. There is no deaf empowerment here.

Think about this, Raphael. If I wasn't empowered in the first place, I wouldn't have started my blog on Unity for Gallaudet. I will keep quiet, afraid to rock the boat because it's not ok for me to ask questions and transparency.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Raphael J. St. Johns — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:43:16 -0000

I ment - "everyone has told me that you have hurt your credtiably."

Sorry for my typo- I have not been feeling well lately.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Raphael J. St. Johns — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:28:38 -0000

"When I published my posts, it was with civility."

YOU allowed this to go on mudslinging, Elizabeth. It’s your blog...you control it. God knows you delete my responses...yet you continue to post the one person who continues to posts angry, vindictive posts-"dr.H".

“The blues” was correct- and the lawyer was correct-

As taken from your own blogs:

"I won’t stopped until they (the DBC leadership) apologized to me" -Dr. H.

It sounds like sour grapes...because it is sour grapes.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Raphael J. St. Johns — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:16:23 -0000

And you [Editor: I think he is referring to MishkaZena] still do not get it!

Allowing this mean , vindictive man to go on and on hurts you.

Like I said before- you may have had a good case...but there was a way to present it.

I warned you in private e-mails that this "Dr. H" sounded like a bitter and angrey man.

You and "Dr. H" chose to go another way...the wrong way. Flamming and baiting and calling people names are NOT the way to present your case.

I find it hard it to believe that you did not know that it was taboo to published IM conversation. You, a deaf person and a blogger. This does NOT take a PH. D. to understand. Even the hearing world understand this: that's why you have to have a Court order to get private records of phone calls, e-mails, etc. Even so, if you did not know, "dr. H" knew.

I have been in contact with a lot of deaf people in the past 2 weeks since this has started, and ..franklly Mishazena, everyone has told that you have hurt your credtiably.

Don't pin this one on me..you have hurt your credtibilty.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Mishkazena — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:50:06 -0000

Raphael, no I didn't know it was a taboo in the Deaf Community to publish business meetings.

It's been removed the link once I realized it is being used to get people fired from their jobs. I was shocked that anyone, especially a Deaf person, would do something like that. I do not want people to get hurt.. that was never my intention. I was only asking for transparency about the deafhood part so everybody will knjow where DBC stands. I don't care if people are against C.I. and oralism, as long as these people don't reject deaf oral people or c.i. users.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Mishkazena — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:48:48 -0000

Oh, by the way, I've tried repeatedly to discuss this with the DBC leaders. They weren't interested in having an open discourse with me, leaving me no choice but to come forward.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Mishkazena — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:47:26 -0000

Raphael,

You are not acknowledging the fact that I and the other former DBC core members have the same experiences. The others wanted to come forward last Fall, but I asked them not to, because I wanted to see DBC succeed. It did. I'm glad it is doing very well.

When I published my posts, it was with civility. I was caught completely off guarded by the intensity of deep anger and furor in the Deaf Community. Apparently these feelings were simmering for a long time, long before this request for DBC to become fully transparent.

You may see my credibility damaged. However, I've received a lot of support from the Deaf Community and the deaf leaders who appreciated me coming forward. They appreciate the honesty.

I guess we will need to agree to disagree.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Raphael J. St. Johns — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:53:22 -0000

To Mishazena:

You still don't get it!

I said:

"You may have had a good case against the DBC. But there is an appropriate way and appropriate response to that."

And I also said:

"Starting a flaming war is not the correct way. Baiting people is not the correct way. And publishing private IM messages is not the way.

Being used (willingly, apparently) as the vehicle for a personal vendetta is not the way to start a communication line."

It's interesting to me that you did not address my main points (the above points) in your response #31.

This "Barry" has admitted on your blog that he has a personal vendetta against the leadership of DBC i.e." until they apologized to me, I will keep on doing this".

Baiting and calling other people names are NOT a good way to communicate.

You are hurting your own creditability...by remaining silent and by given this mean, vindictive man a platform to spew his anger.

And one more thing- you have yet to address the violation of the one of the most scared thing in Deaf culture- the publishing of PRIVATE IM messages.

Shame on you.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

DrDonG — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:14:41 -0000

NACPAC --

I'm afraid I'm going to have to strongly disagree (so what else is new, huh?) with you that Barry is just a "whistleblower". When a pattern of behavior arises with someone that that person creates chaos in every organization and relationship he has, in my book, it means there is something wrong with that person. I don't believe people should be or can be perfect, but most ordinary people don't seem to leave a trail of tears behind them everywhere they go.

As for his business, ok, I can't say it isn't legitimate, because it is, technically. But it is a quasi-pyramid scheme, and most people know those things don't work, unless you get in early (or set it up yourself)...

--DonG.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

nacpac — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:55:54 -0000

Oh, its up there now. Allright.

Duh, I meant objectivity when in reference to Shari. Guess we Deafies all have something in common: worried about our English. Thus my need for correction. :oP

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

DrDonG — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:36:16 -0000

NACPAC --

Don't remember seeing it... ? Not in queue now...

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

nacpac — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:28:08 -0000

Sheri,

I appreciate your involvement in this matter in several blogs in DR today. We need your wisdom and subjectivity. No wonder youre so good at your job.

Hey Don, where's my comment about DR Hocokan? It disappeared from the list, hmmm??? I was nice, I was sure of that. Haha.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

nacpac — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:24:39 -0000

oh crap, for the above comment, I'm "nacpac" for the native asl parent with ci child. You gave me the acronym and I liked it. Nacpac, so be it!

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

napac — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:22:56 -0000

Don,

Another thought provoking b/vlog of yours! I walked into the False Prophets pdf file and I can see that you spent a lot of time gathering all of the possible information relating to the Man from the wide world web.

I do understand how you feel. I agree with why you felt compelled t post this information to "expose" Dr Hocokan,

BUT

I do not see anything fraudulent, scammish, or wrong with his involvement in the business world, his real estate ventures, and his relationship with his home town. I do not see anything fishy, funny, or illegal. He is a businessman and obviously a very ambitious one.

You know businesspeople, they can be shady they can be money grubbers they can be hard working . . . what he does for his family living is very impressive for a Deaf person. See what he has done to his empire is amazing. He can be a wonderful role model for our deaf children.

He is a whistleblower and got condemned by some of us. Oh well.

At least he told the truth.

DBC will resurrect and this time we know better not to repeat the same mistakes.

No biggie.

Anyway, thanks for this blog and the link.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Sheri A. Farinha — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:03:08 -0000

Clarification on one paragraph:

People have a right to express their opinion of what they felt needed improving with the DBC. What went wrong is when people starting using names to attack certain members of the DBC, commenters flogged them! It went way beyond the "free speech" arena. Those who disagree with how it is managed like Anne Marie, Amy, Mz, at least showed respect when they expressed their dissent, but whether or not we liked what they said, they too are protected by our first amendment but they did not abuse it unlike some who have commented on the various v/blogs.

Thanks to those who emailed me asking for clarification.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

DrDonG — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:15:19 -0000

PassThru -- I don't think I removed the contact, but here it is Dr Don G @ deafhood discourses dot com
(remove spaces and put . for dot)

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

SDA — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:06:24 -0000

Don ~
Your post here was necessary and it is about high time that we know who Barry is.
I realize that some people who have commented here still do not get it. I can only hope that one day soon they will finally wake up and be fully enlightened! :-)
Again, good job of putting together all the pieces on Barry.

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Sheri A. Farinha — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:41:12 -0000

Dan, I am in agreement with Don G. The more you use the word "deaf cult" the less people are going to listen to what you have to say.

To whomever wrote, "Don spoke THE TRUTH, as opposed to SMEARING him. This is necessary, because DR Hocokan has been SMEARING DBC and anybody who gets in his way."

You just proved my point. I don't know who Barry is, but he is still protected by the first amendment, provided info on what he feels needed to be revealed, and Don G ikewise. My point is, We keep seeing this go on and on, when are we going to step up and demand for it to stop?

My point all along has been, if the purpose of what DBC is doing is good, then focus on that, help it improve or start anew. Its not doing any good to keep on "digging dirt" on any one person.

There are a lot of good people involved. I for one, cannot imagine how Ella must be feeling seeing her name creamed everywhere, and really ask for it to stop.

I think enough hurt has happened, I'm disgusted. Arent you all? Its one thing to make a point to express what is needed to improve, its entirely unacceptable to keep drilling it over and over, to the point its overkill, and has created the division even further.

Good grief! We are all human, as leaders, we do our best with the best interest of the community in our minds. If we make mistakes, its our responsibility to be accountable for our mistakes and learn from them, and move on.

But we should never be seeing such immature battles over personalities and what ever. AND, a witch hunt should have never occurred.

People - those of you who disagree with DBC's management, you owe Ella an apology. Cruel insults are not acceptable. If you disagree, FINE. Be respectful about it and make your point. But to keep dragging her name through the mud is just deplorable.

I dont care which side you are on, its just downright wrong. perpetuating the witchhunt by finding wrong in the people who dissented your is equally as worse. FOCUS on the ISSUE. Does anyone know what the issue is anymore?

Obviously a great deal of anger remains in our community. Obviously a lot of healing still needs to happen. We hear you!!!

At this point in time, I request a call for ACTION. All this talk about ACCOUNTABILITY? Guess what? Accountability rests with ALL of US.
Huh? Yep thats right, YOU too!
You see unethical and immature behaviours commenting on v/blogs? Then Step up to the plate and demand a cease fire! Request respect and uphold the basic principles of free speech with regard to dissent!

Otherwise, you are guilty of lperpetuating the problem. Take action, don't just sit there and complain and hurl insults amongst yourselves.

Lastly, BOYCOTT v/blogs who encourage this type of behaviour!

Remember, Its what you Do that counts!

Re: Beware of False Prophets!

Brian L. Mayes — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:22:13 -0000

Boy, you are one of the most paranoid person I know... What are you hoping to gain from this? Personal gratification?? What? I agree with Candy, you have really scooped low. I pity you.