Dr. DonG.'s Deafhood Discourses - Latest Comments

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: What is Deafhood?

Joseph Pietro Riolo — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:39:57 -0000

I can see how your perspective where every deaf person undergoes Deafhood regardless of whether he realizes it can be valid. I would be very cautious with this view that claims to be the only valid view. Dr. Paddy Ladd used some philosophical terms such as "existential state", "epistemological" and other terms. As can be seen from the very long history of philosophy, there exist many philosophies that have some validity and doubts. The philosophical view proposed by Dr. Paddy Ladd is merely one view that, I believe, cannot be the only way to describe the experiences of all deaf people.

Your example of childhood becomes doubtful when it is realized that the childhood can be lost. Too many children who were forced to be soldiers, known as "child soldier", at very early age in few places in the world very often have to be said that they lost their childhood. This is also true for few children who were very severely abused or exploited since when they were very young. Let's not belittle them by claiming that they already underwent childhood when they claimed otherwise.

Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com

Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: What is Deafhood?

DrDonG — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 01:57:02 -0000

Hi DeafChip --

That is a funny way of putting it but it totally works! I will definitely have to remember that one!

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: What is Deafhood?

deafchipmunk — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 01:27:18 -0000

Hi Don,

Well done and I am impressed with your explanation about Deafhood. You have given a clear concept of Deafhood itself.

cnkatz,
I definitely agree with you about people who have criticized Paddy Ladd are actually part of Deafhood process. It is like people who did not believe in childhood but they already went through their own childhood process.

The only one thing for sure is that we cannot escape our Deafhood process.

Deafchip

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: Overview and Key Terms

deafchipmunk — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 00:15:59 -0000

Hi Don

Re: Act Now! LPGA & their new English proficiency rule

mcconnell — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 21:20:33 -0000

So, with your logic deafchipmunk, any Deaf golfer that competes in a hearing golf tournament need not to be accomodated with an ASL interpreter, after all, they have a Deaf golf tourney they can go to. Right?

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: Overview and Key Terms

DrDonG — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 21:07:34 -0000

Seesmic video reply from Disqus.

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: Overview and Key Terms

ecnarb — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 20:07:58 -0000

Cool! about the word Deaf...

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: Overview and Key Terms

DrDonG — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:56:30 -0000

Seesmic video reply from Disqus.

Re: Act Now! LPGA & their new English proficiency rule

deafchipmunk — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:45:18 -0000

Hi Don,

I am very pleased with your vlog. I strongly disagree with others who have claimed that CI and hearing aids should not be banned. I find that insulting to the Deaf community. I aman avid golf player. I put my hearing aid away in respect of DEAF. It is all about Deaf. I do not give a damn about people who complain about not having CI and hearing aid in golf. If they want to, go to hearing golf tournament or to continue insulting Deaf. We do not need that. There are plenty of hearing tournaments all over the world. Why screaming at Deaf golf associations like a pig stuck in the mud! That kind of attitude I dread the most!

Deafchip

Re: Act Now! LPGA & their new English proficiency rule

mcconnell — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:41:29 -0000

USDGA is practicing discrimination based on the contestants' ability to hear whose only accomodation needs may require the use of a cochlear implant or hearing aid to communicate orally and aurally, and not sign language. Disparity on communication needs and preferred language is what makes this as unequal treatment case.

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: Overview and Key Terms

DrDonG — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:33:11 -0000

Hi Brance --

Thank you for pointing me to Disqus. I will check it out and see if I can figure out how to add it to here. I am pretty good with technology, but the coding aspect is not so good for me.

I do not believe that use of "Deaf" alone is or should be a problem for our community. I think using Deaf ASL community makes a worse problem, because it continues to divide those Deaf who use ASL from those Deaf who don't use ASL. I support using Deaf period because "deaf" refers to the medical model while Deaf is for the cultural or Deafhood sense. Paddy shows us that all Deaf people, whether they use ASL or not, have to go through that process of understanding themselves as Deaf people (he calls that process Deafhood). So I want to see us all use Deaf to unite us all -- maybe once we all accept that we are Deaf together, we can start WORKING together. We NEED to WORK TOGETHER so bad!

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: “The Museum”

DrDonG — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:27:15 -0000

H.P. --

Thank you. I hardly did that Museum story justice. I've seen Ella's and other people's versions, and they do it so beautifully. I'm happy to help reach out to the Hearing community -- this is SO important for the Deaf community -- to create awareness among Hearing people of how we think and why we are NOT "disabled", and why their Deaf children are NOT a "problem".

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: What is Deafhood?

DrDonG — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:24:32 -0000

MM,

Unfortunately, I can't agree that Paddy's definitions are not valid, because I do believe they are. I believe you have interpreted them through your own lens to make them invalid, but through my lens, they DO apply to you too. Even though you reject the 'D' I see you are 'D'. Your recent post about "Hallelujah!" shows me you are 'D'. You think like us. You have the same cynicism about "cures" that we do. You participate on the Deaf sites. You write about Deaf issues. You are 'D', whether you like it or not. In reality, we have been talking about the same things in the long run with Deafhood -- those experiences and perceptions of ourselves and the world around us that are colored by our being "deaf".

Katz --

It's already a pretty lengthy process for me to save and upload once in this vlog format. To add save as YouTube.... sigh... plus, personally, I don't want to be reduced to a grainy image.... I like looking and thinking clearly.....

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: Overview and Key Terms

ecnarb — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:34:17 -0000

DonG,
I was about to reply to your vlog, but I can't find the video comment button. Hopefully one day... you may try www.disqus.com to set up commenting system that have both text and video. (it is free)

I don't know where to discuss or put this in your discussion... I hope this will not "off point" from your vlog.

About the "logical fallacy", I have see so many of those illogical arguments related to Deaf/ASL community. See? I put two words "Deaf and ASL" next to community for the sake of peace. Americian Deaf is the right concept. or American Sign language is the right
concept! Deaf or sign language are not right concept that defines us.

The term "Deaf" alone created alot of problem for us as ASL community and the society.

Here's the example of logical fallacy from Wikipedia:

1. Cutting people with a knife is a crime.
2. Surgeons cut people with knives.
3. Surgeons are criminals.

It happened to "Deaf", especially to many researchers who used the subjects at age between 50 to 55 years old (post-linguistic) for the testing with bi CI and applied to pre-linguistic children. That's illogical argument.

I'm not against CI users. What I was saying is that they did not use visual language should
auditory method not working for them. It was hard for me to explain in words.
Use both audio and visual at early age then either one is work for that child, so he/she can adopt the language without dump the majority of children who no longer use the audio side and struggled with visual language at later age. They (researchers) used this group to say visual language was not an ideal why? because of low grade level in many areas. that's illogical argument. They adopted visual language much later in their age.

Thank you for your vlog.
Ecnarb

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: What is Deafhood?

cnkatz — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:13:16 -0000

DonG, just let MM be. He, just now with his comments here, insulted my intelligence and dignity as a deaf person. I leave him alone. If you need more exercises in honing your rebuttals, keep on, otherwise let it be.

DonG, keep on with this deafhood series. People who do watch blogs are only a small(?) fraction of the deaf community. More do watch vlogs not in any blog format but youtube and dvtv. Much more rarely use the internet. We need to reach those people. You must have your own reasons for not putting your videos on youtube and dvtv. Schools for the Deaf, most if not all, restrict blogs in their internet usage policies, unless approving websites. Should you type up transcripts below which is paste-able. I could go on and on with "issues" of maintaining a blog because I am in the same blogboat as you.

When deaf and HH people like MM (if he has any hearing loss) criticize Ladd or anyone else, they are already engaging in their deafhood process. As simple as that. Any cognitive (mental, psychological, behavioral, and/or spiritual) exercise on the topic of being deaf (deafhood) is engaging in the deafhood process. Those denying and celebrating about hearing loss engage in deafhood. Again, as simple as that. I found this single term, deafhood, simple to grasp. Not so with all the baggage with deafhood, the worst is our friend, Paddy, who also is on a journey we all share.

DonG, as Seneca said, "to err is human". When I see any serious errors, I will make pubic comment here. I haven't seen any so far, other than having thoughts of doing this and that differently, smile.

Forge on -

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: “The Museum”

Hearing Parent — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:29:20 -0000

Don,
What a good analogy. Thank you for posting these vlogs on Deafhood. For hearing parents, It is a good peek into the cultural side of being Deaf and how regardless of the pathological approaches to "fixing" the person to become more "hearing-like", Deaf culture and the pride in being Deaf continues to perservere. I can't tell you how valuable and insightful your postings are for the hearing community as well as the Deaf community.

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: What is Deafhood?

MM — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:31:19 -0000

Obvipously I haven't read every single word Don, has anyone ? I am struggling as are many to try and read on, while totally sidelining the defintitions he put at the start, because this is labelling we have to accept before we can, he makes it almost impossible for people to do that. If we reject the D,d thing (And I think most are now dissolutioned with it), then reading the book becomes a real struggle, because he is forcing us to accept what we cannot. I don't think Paddy realised when he penned this book, that the D and d would become obsolete before he went to print.... He must have known even then it was contentious in our world.... I supect this is what you mean when you suggest we repeat ourselves.

If we are going to discuss 'Understanding Deaf Culture' can we do it on the basis the definitions are NOT valid ? but a personal view, as they are not universally accepted amongst the deaf or the HoH ? That I may reject the D.d thing does not by definition mean I reject the deaf culture.... they keep suggesting that... Understanding deaf people would be a more worthwhile discourse..... it is a mistake to align this with culture.

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: What is Deafhood?

DrDonG — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:45:05 -0000

MM --

I didn't say critics. I said questions. As for his motives, I've only met the guy 2 times, for a total of about 30 mins. both times. I can only say what I've heard from others what his reasons are.

Just out of curiosity -- did you read the book ALL the way through? I'm not saying just the first chapter, but the WHOLE book?

As for not listening to those who have not read the book, and wondering what axe they are grinding, I agree wholeheartedly. Many of the critics haven't read it, and they admit it. Nobody should be allowed t criticize without knowing what they're criticizing, especially a complicated subject like Paddy's book.

Re: Act Now! LPGA & their new English proficiency rule

DrDonG — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:39:30 -0000

JPR --

Linguists do not recognize written English as a language only because writing is a code for whatever language is being spoken. But this does not invalidate the fact that if one can read (decode) the writing, it therefore follows that one knows the language and is therefore a user of the language. So Deaf people can be (and are) bilingual when they know and use ASL and know and use English (through written means). You are adhering to the literal meaning of "lingual", referring to "tongue", and this is throwing you off from recognizing that knowing and using a language does not mean having to be able to speak it as well. There are Chinese scientists who can read English or German, but can't speak the languages. Does that mean they're monolingual? No, they're bi (or tri)lingual, they just can't speak all the languages they know.

Linguists have another term they use which may help clarify. The concept is of "communicative competence", which eliminates that "lingual" issue. This refers the ability to communicate and understand thoughts in a specific language. So those Chinese scientists I mentioned above have communicative competence in the spoken and written forms of Chinese and communicative competence in the written forms of English and German. They know the language, just express their competence differently in different modalities (another good word to keep in mind).

Re: Act Now! LPGA & their new English proficiency rule

Joseph Pietro Riolo — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:26:50 -0000

Several strengths (or advantages) of monolingualism that I can think of are effective use of resources for communication (i.e. don't need translators), strengthening the union among different peoples, reduction or elimination of problems that occur as the result of translation from one language to other language, and an example of "less is more".

I will concede that if I were to try to enumerate the strengths in monolingualism and bilingualism, the latter would overshadow the former in no time. However, the judgment of which one is better than the other should not depend on the number alone. It is like the question at the end of your older vlog on which circular or linear thinking is better. I wrote that neither is better than the other one.

I am not against bilingualism. I only object to the attempt by the proponents of bilingualism to present it as rosy, ideal way to go. Bilingualism, like monolingualism, has some weaknesses (or disadvantages). If I were to take the similar route, I would have said that trilingualism is better than bilingualism and that everyone should adopt trilingualism and I would berate people for not choosing trilingualism over bilingualism. Ditto for quadrilingualism, quinqulingualism, multilingualism and beyond.

It should be mentioned that for the large number of the members of the Deaf culture, they are actually monolingual instead of bilingual. The written English language is not recognized as a true, natural language by the linguists. If one is able to read the English literature, he is said to be literate in the English language. Likewise, if one is able to read the French literature, he is said to be literate in the French language but he is not bilingual yet because he has not acquired the ability to speak the French language. In order for these members to be bilingual, they would have to master another signed language or to acquire the ability to speak the English language (or any spoken language) fluently. In a sense, monolingualism exists among the large number of the members of the American Deaf culture.

I do recognize that there are different definitions for the suffix "-lingual" and the words "literacy" and "literate". For the above, I limit "-lingual" to true, natural languages as recognized by linguists and "literacy" and "literate" to the ability to use a writing system (i.e. able to read and write) of a spoken or signed natural language. Using different definitions, of course, will alter the meaning of this comment substantially.

Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com

Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.

Re: Introduction to Deafhood: What is Deafhood?

MM — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:37:33 -0000

Unfortunately Mr Ladd has remained almost totally unresponsive to critics. I find this personally frustrating and a cop out frankly. You and I get the critics, we have to answer them..... Having started all the argument and discourse he now seems to be distancing himself from it, "It isn't my fault how others interpret what I write..", yes it IS, if he doesn't clarify.

Is it just that the more discourse that happens, the more books he sells ? he wouldn't be the first to go with that approach, he watches you and others struggle to make sense of what he writes, and doesn't help does he ? The struggle is yours ? he just says keep on struggling.... in the UK (As you know via responses on other UK blogs), they haven't even bothered to read it. It didn't stop them still attacking myself and others for so doing ! there is so much ignorance and pejudice it is beyond belief at times, always it goes down to the personal.

Thje only discussions on deafhood are in the USA. Paddy has no audience here for it. If I go over old ground, it is because it HASN'T yet been covered, or answered, not because I am never going to accept it.... why should we even listen to those that have not even read it ? What axe are they grinding ?

Re: Act Now! LPGA & their new English proficiency rule

DrDonG — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 02:22:59 -0000

Not a professional opinion at all here. Is it discrimination? I don't think so. All contestants are being treated equally and subject to the same rules. Now if you were to say they're practicing discrimination for not including Hearing people, I'd definitely say you MIGHT have a case.

Re: Act Now! LPGA & their new English proficiency rule

mcconnell — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 02:17:59 -0000

Then your opinion, and I'm guessing it is a profesisonal opinion of yours, is that the USDGA is a Deaf-only golfing tourney and that they practice discrimination?

Re: Act Now! LPGA & their new English proficiency rule

DrDonG — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 01:56:09 -0000

McConnell --

USDGA is a Deaf-only tournament, in that only Deaf people can play in it. But the USDGA has no rule about whether those Deaf people use ASL or not. Oral Deaf can play in it too. But playing, you must be "deaf". So for them, that means no CIs or hearing aids. Whether that actually makes a difference or not, I don't know. As I said, I don't play golf, and as far as I can tell, hearing doesn't provide much advantage at all in most sports (trying to think of one where hearing is actually an advantage or necessity, and the only one I can think of is not a sport, unless "Marco Polo" has attained sporting status....

I Identify --

You may be right -- maybe those CI felt rejected by Hearing or felt looked down upon as inferior by Hearing, so they prefer to be with Deaf golfers... I don't know. But if that's true, that is an element of Deafhood, since that is an experience that most, if not all, Deaf people have experienced at one time or another. Like I have been saying, Deafhood consists in part, of those experiences as Deaf people that we all share due to our not being Hearing.

(And by the way, regarding a previous comment you made, no, Hearing people don't usually think of themselves as "Hearing". Majority peoples usually don't think of themselves as anything but what they uusually call themselves until they are confronted with the notion that not everybody views them in the ssame way. White people never really thought of themselves as "White" until Blacks started confronting them with their "difference" (I know this isn't the right word to use here, but I can't think of what it should be at the moment). Men never really thought of themselves as being "chauvinist" until Feminists started confronting them with their chauvinism. Those are just two examples. Hearing people do start realizing they are "Hearing" when they are confronted with their polarity to "Deaf". H. Dirksen Bauman has made the statement that he never knew he was "Hearing" until he was 20 years old, not because he is a CODA (which he is not), but because that was when he started learning ASL and about the Deaf community.

Re: Act Now! LPGA & their new English proficiency rule

i.identify.me — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 01:31:15 -0000

I feel guilty for straying too far from your vlog content so i'll try to keep this short.

Obviously I don't agree with how you define Deaf Identity with regarding to me reading DeafRead. For example, I am straight, yet i sometimes read some websites about gay & lesbian. I certainly don't have identity with that, just keeping a broad knowledge of world's perspectives. But that's alright, I will agree to disagree. At least there is one common thing, we have some paralleling concepts, just different details.

DBC+ASL, what you said makes sense, but they might want to update their site to make that clearer.

CI + deaf golf assoc: Forgive me if i misunderstood you - Perhaps like you said in another vlog comments, hearing may think deaf are of a lesser (i don't agree tho), then maybe those CI felt rejected by them so they flocked over to deaf golf assoc ? I wouldn't call that Deafhood attraction factor tho, but hey that's just me :)

i.identify.me