Dr. DonG.'s Deafhood Discourses - Latest Comments in Deafhood is a cult!

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

DrDonG — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:01:43 -0000

MM,

I don't hate you either. You have always presented yourself as a thoughtful commenter and blogger, and as I've said before, I do see that we do have some (a few, anyway) common grounds. I've disagreed with you, but I do understand where you are coming from.

However, Deafhood is not the cause of the problems. The problems were there WAY before Deafhood even came onto the scene. If you feel you don't need it, fine. I feel it has a lot of explanatory power for why we have had these problems.

As for implosion, yes, that is what we are seeing. And I don't want to see it. And I don't think you do either.

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

MM — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:00:54 -0000

I don't hate you Don, I do think deafhood is the cause of all the problems (Well, that and the D,d things). As we are all fond of quoting, concentrate on what will unite, not what will maintain the divide, so, deafhood, D,d and all that, get rid..... you don't need it, I don't need it, confident deaf do not need labels, titles, or even a pseudo-cult approach, to discover they are actually deaf. You have to imagine the deaf 'community' is like a submarine, it goes on the surface, and it goes underwater too, but you have to be careful not to go Too deep or the whole thing implodes, implosion is what you are seeing....

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

DrDonG — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:25:40 -0000

Once again,

My comment had absolutely NOTHING to do with respecting or not respecting diversity and/or youth, and EVERYTHING to do with recognizing the foibles of youth, of which I have had my share of experience with. Some of you have commented to me and and said you were closer to my age, and yet made some taunting comments which I felt were extremely immature and non-productive to the discussion, so I deleted them. It has NOTHING to do with age, and EVERYTHING to do with maturity.

But obviously, some of you have decided that you don't like me, and are determined therefore to find fault with what I said, and nothing I say is going to make you change your minds. If that's so, so be it. Move on, people!

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

Susan — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:16:24 -0000

I have to agree with Karen's comment re. some teachers learn from students as well as it works both ways.

As even if we want to help the deaf babies and children's future I think we should hear from all sorts of diverse groups not matter what their ages or experience as it's a good tool to help make things better as I don't see why the older ones say he's just a kid.. ekk that does tells you something about that person's attitude towards diversity but to just one kind.

Namaste,

Susan

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

DrDonG — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 17:31:38 -0000

Ok, before you all jump on the bandwagon to castigate me further, let me make one thing clear:

When I said Ben is "just a kid", I was not referring to his ideas. He is clearly old enough to have opinions of his own, and he articulates them very well, in both writing and ASL. (And FYI, that is bilingualism. There are many Hearing people out there who can read English and speak a different language of their own. Our current President of the U.S. is one example (but I'm not so sure about his ability to read, either... he [and Cheney] didn't seem able to read the CIA intel on Iraq so well, but I digress...).

What I was referring to was his insistence on pressing his "case" (pun intended), even when I had already indicated that I was ready to stop discussing that point. As I said, when I was his age, I did the same kind of thing. Now, I'm a little older, and (hopefully) a little wiser, and I can see that behavior for what it was. That's all I was referring to.

We done with that?

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

MM — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:29:02 -0000

All is confusion Karen, that's the idea :)

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

Ann_C — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:50:32 -0000

I'm older than you, Professor, and I've moved on. :)

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

Shadow — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:34:52 -0000

Or thoughts...

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

Shadow — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:34:17 -0000

I'm not jumping on you just submitting my ideas...

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

Candy — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:07:35 -0000

DonG,

Your credibility as an educator/professor etc has gone down the drain when you attempt to dismiss people in the way that you have.

What is going on in deaf blogosphere is not a witch hunt.

I can honestly tell you that many of us who saw that months ago, are now not jumping with joy. We are glad the truth is out. But, it is indeed very sad.

Most of us wished it isn't true.

But, it's the truth.

Deal with it.

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

native asl/ci parent and child — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:22:11 -0000

DonG: "Yes, I am becoming VERY concerned about Deaf Read and our Deaf community. It seems like we are becoming more fractured on more fronts than ever. At first it was just manualism and oralism. Then it was SEE vs. ASL vs. Oralism. Then it was SEE v. ASL v. Oralism v. TC. Then it became all that plus Deafhood. Then that, plus DeafREad v. DeafVillage. And now, plus DBC/NAD/whatnext?

LET’S STOP THE INSANITY, PEOPLE!"

NACPC: I AGREE! I do have my own belief as to why this is happening. It is not the majority of the d/D who is causing the increasing unrest in the deaf world.

Maybe I should do a vlog about this one day.

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

native asl/ci parent and child — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:15:13 -0000

Ouch, DonG! Your comment about Ben Vess is uncalled for. John E is generally known as an angry ex-oralist of yesteryear and his comments are often ignored by the majority of us. But, you? Come on. Smile.

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

Karen Mayes — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 09:42:32 -0000

True teachers learn from students who are often younger than the teachers.

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

Ben Vess — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 07:03:50 -0000

DonG,

You are no adversary. :) Don't put yourself there.

John Egbert has insulted me before, which is why I am not responding to his comment. To me, he doesn't exist until he shows me some respect.

You're starting to move yourself in his category.

Neither one of you need a 25 year old telling you how to behave appropriately, do you? Have all your years taught you nothing?

First, maintain respect, Don. Don't insult me by saying "I'm just a kid." Secondly, we aren't discussing the difference between fact and opinion anymore because you cannot debate my points anymore.

Admit it, I am correct and you are not. Insulting me doesn't change that, old man. In fact, it reduces your creditability. Heed these words, well Herr Doktor, for I will not be so nice the next time.

-Ben

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

MM — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 04:37:58 -0000

The thing about diversity Don is people will have different views on things. I think many of us are now fed up with the D,d thing, deafhood, and whatever else they can dream up to drive wedges between people, because there is little doubt deafhood has contributed to divide and argument, because of its elitist focus on one sector of deaf who in turn, are being told by Mr Ladd where they should be heading. He tried telling us too but got nowhere.

We'll tell you for nothing and save you buying Mr LAdd's opus, that is to go intothe same room as other deaf and sit down and TALK things over,something Mr LAdd has yet to suggest. All youwill get online is those for, and against, which contributes in the long run ZILCH. Perhaps Mr Ladd has tapped into the paranoia some deaf are clearly exhibiting via "everyone is out to get us..." Far better A G Bell and the DBC and Gallaudet and those promoting division got theirs.... and someone put a stop to it all.

From what I can see it just drives deaf people further backwards not forwards.

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

Dan — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:55:45 -0000

It depends on IQ and how much they have experiences. Not on AGES.

My age is close to yours! I have more experiences than you have... I have been working with global corporations, UN congress and deaf communities in the world under World Federation of the Deaf.

Deaf americans (especially "not all, but majority" in age of 40's) are spoiled and thought they knew everything. But the truth is NOT ENOUGH.

But... I noticed new generation, non-deaf cults, modern age... They are getting better ones than older ones like YOU! AGEISM!

You need to listen Deaf kids who are smart and have potential talents (try to understand them), instead of saying "CUTE KIDS or PUPPIES"! It sounds insulting! AGEISM!

Even we are getting older and still learning... like them... NO difference.

Deafhood = CULT. PERIOD.

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

DrDonG — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:46:19 -0000

John,

Yes, I am becoming VERY concerned about Deaf Read and our Deaf community. It seems like we are becoming more fractured on more fronts than ever. At first it was just manualism and oralism. Then it was SEE vs. ASL vs. Oralism. Then it was SEE v. ASL v. Oralism v. TC. Then it became all that plus Deafhood. Then that, plus DeafREad v. DeafVillage. And now, plus DBC/NAD/whatnext?

LET'S STOP THE INSANITY, PEOPLE!

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

DrDonG — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:42:49 -0000

Shadow,

I KNEW when I posted this, that some fundamentalist Christian would jump on me for seeming to insinuate that Christianity is a cult. I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. Watch again. I said that Christianity is now one of the world's three major religions (those being Judaism, Islam and Christianity) [I can't remember if Buddhism is large enough to be counted as a major religion as well].

However, you will notice I used Jesus' Hebrew name in the beginning. Why? Because Jesus WAS Jewish. In the 1st Century C.E., the dominant society of the region then called Judea was Jewish. When Jesus started going around talking about his ideas, they were quite heretical for his time -- not needing to sacrifice animals at the altar, having a personal relationship with God that is not mediated through the Cohanim (High Priests), and so forth. When he started, the Jews of his time referred to his group as the "cult of Jesus". His mother would sit around the Mah Jongg table kvetching to her friends, "OY! My bubbeleh Yeshua! I love him to pieces, but he gives me such tsouris (heartache)!" So they turned on him to try to stop his ideas from spreading. And you know the rest of the story -- they convinced the Romans that he was a threat and to have something done about this guy.

By the way, if you haven't guessed yet, I'm Jewish myself. But I have learned the history of Christianity because it's important to learn about the history of others, so you can know more about your own through that lens as well. LEARN YOUR HISTORY! It's not just a class to sleep through. It is a powerful tool that will help you in your life. As Santayana said, "Those who fail to remember the past are doomed to repeat it".

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

DrDonG — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:30:45 -0000

*sigh*

Ben,

About 20 years ago (if John E. is correct that you are 23, then it was exactly 20 years ago), I was a lot like you. If someone called me a kid (and a few did), I would have bristled at that, just as you did. And on the discussion boards, I would keep adding on to the argument, partly because I thought I was right, and partly because it is kind of fun to "match wits" with an adversary.

I think that with more time and experience in the world, you will make a fine leader in whatever it is you decide you want to lead in. But you need a little more seasoning. You will learn, as I did, that things are not always quite as black and white as they may seem, and hopefully, you will learn some pragmatism as well.

I don't know how old Dan and Ann C. are, but if you two are in the same age bracket, then the same goes for you.

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

Ann_C — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 01:37:59 -0000

DrDonG~

Patronizing youth dates you, Professor.

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

Shadow — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 00:08:11 -0000

Christianity Is Not A Cult...Or Never Was A Cult. It Was About Following The Messiah Christ Jesus. And People That Dont Accept That There Is A Being That Created Us Then Spend Eternity In Hell...Becuse Ide Rather Not. (The Big Bang Is Just A Assumption And Will Never Be Able To Be Proven).

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

Dan — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 23:03:45 -0000

DrDonG and John.

You are all AGEISM!! and Deaf Cults! Behind the real modernized world.

Still learning?? What a joke! How come, you had a difficult time to understand the real meaning of Diversity. Very simple term.

Everyone understands it very well. Corporate, Government anywhere, got it. Except Deaf cults!

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

Jon — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 23:03:10 -0000

I am really disappointed about how Deafread is becoming a "cult" blogsphere by a few people and exspecially Mishka Zena, Deafread Human editor doing encouraging of the readers into more destructive rather than constructive dialogue.

I am so shocked about Mishka Zena subtle destructive attitude towards Deaf Bilingual Coalition. Is this what Deafread owners, Tayler and Jared want to approve this negative character to be one of the Human editor?

It's really becoming a ghetto aggregator site now.

Do you have the same concern?

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

David Ennis — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:56:59 -0000

DBC Facts - I did agree on some facts until I realized that some facts may be biased or
misleading when DR Hocokan did not know much about the in-depth details of the
Deafhood and even worse, she did not read the Deafhood at the first place. Most
anti-Deafhood activists do not read the Deafhood book at all.

" Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark,
professionals built the Titanic" Unknown proverb.

Re: Deafhood is a cult!

Ben Vess — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:54:42 -0000

Ah, my youth.

Don, you know what they say about old people like you?

"Can't teach an old dog new tricks." Of course, you're not going to budge, I'm not sure if you can at all; it might be a "new trick" for you. The best thing my youth can give me is time. Time will allow you to die off, and with you, your ideas of old.

That's an advantage that I have and you do not. It is through youth, like me, your deafhood can live on. Don't discount youth so quickly.

Just because I'm young doesn't mean I'm stupid. I saw through your bullshit, that's why you won't say anything.

Bullshit doesn't taste real nice, I'm sure.

-Ben