Dr. DonG.'s Deafhood Discourses - Latest Comments in On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

dog food — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 02:25:13 -0000

"I’m raising my deaf babies to live contentedly in the world, not angrily apart from society."

food for a thought.

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

dog food — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 02:21:52 -0000

well said, observer... i like how you described the need for anon.

I can't help but be crass. Just like anyone can't help but comment one way or another.

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

dog food — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 02:17:39 -0000

I prefer to use my monkier; It doesn't make me cowardly.

think about the name: "dog food". It sure brings out the colors of those who are most pissed at my comments. What deaf person doesn't like to be thought of as a dog?

Obviously that says alot about a commenter's self-esteem. Does your emotional baggage get in the way of your thoughts when you're affect by my crass comments which always had a point?

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Karen Mayes — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 10:04:52 -0000

And I support Mishkazena. She is a strong voice and it is disturbing to see her being attacked by some people who don't understand her. I see people who post their real names as commenters/vloggers/bloggers are more brave and are more able to stand up for their own beliefs. I do get scorned and etc. because my perspective does not mesh their perspectives *shrug*

You could check out the Insane World of Misha about respect: http://blog.deafread.com/mi...

Also, I appreciate Brance's videocomment (the first comment under Barry) on Barry's vlog: http://www.deafvideo.tv/vid.... Dr.Don, I know you are not crazy about Barry, but I do agree with Barry because he has been saying what a few of us have been saying for the last year since DBC was born.

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Mishkazena — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:16:03 -0000

In Response, the lack of integrity and transparency of DBC disturbs me. Why would I be jealous of DBC? I left for multiple reasons, hidden agendas, lack of parliamentary procedure, intimidation in other members, verbal attacks from certain leaders and lastly a call for censorship of unpopular bloggers/vloggers. I am glad it is doing well, especially with the national conference last month, but it's not for me.

Why does it bother me? I feel Deaf Community deserves full transparency from an organization representing them. The negative reactions I received the last four weeks after I asked for clarification and transparency show me that DBC doesn't welcome this kind of approach. The strong retaliations against these people and also the former DBC members who shared their experiences with DBC leave me even more concerned and reserved about the democratic process of this growing organization and its handling of the Deaf Community. Raising questions and concerns being interpreted as attempts to destroy an organization raise my eyebrows. I won't be surprised if I'm attacked again for making this statement, but that's how I and others see it. Many people contacted me privately out of concern due to my treatment on the Internet. They were very supportive of me as they didn't like what they saw.

Where is the freedom of speech for Deaf people? We live in America where people are encouraged to think critically, but I don't see the same encouragement in the Deaf Community. It's sad.

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Mishkazena — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 11:54:16 -0000

Anon

I've been threatened, slandered, and attacked. There were and are smear campaigns to destroy my reputation and integrity. I still use my name. *shrug*

Personally I think people using anonymous tend to attack more viciously at a personal level. Which doesn't reflect well to that person, hence the usage of the anon terms. I think it's cowardly, imo.

From what I've seen, it seems many Deaf people are not feeling empowered to really express their honest opinion. The free thinkers who do, receive retaliations, which I think is sad. So much for Deaf Empowerment if peaceful constructive dialogues are strongly discouraged. How far have we progressed since Unity for Gallaudet, I ponder.

Personally I am puzzled why it's so difficult to conduct a discourse without people feeling threatened. We do see citizens, including reporters, expressing concerns, opinions and raising questions without the fear of retaliation. It just makes me wonder why it's so different here.

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Jean Boutcher — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:10:45 -0000

Edward Nugent:

I have been a political - peace (anti-war) activisit for a number of years. We would make signs for picketing at rallies. In October of 2002, I saw a sign picketed by a Georgetown University student, "Do not bomb Iraq.
Bomb Bush." Another sign I saw was "Bury Not Iraqian civilians. Bury Bush." (I made a jumbo reproduction of "Guernica", by the way.)

Do you think that activists literally wanted to bomb or bury Bush?
No. Just figuratively. So it was the same with Jack Barr who did not
share his vlog with the world but with the e-loop of DeafRead. Why make a mountain out of a molehill?

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Jean Boutcher — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 22:50:08 -0000

DrDonG writes:

Richard – You are an example of why we are having problems — you tell parents what they WANT to hear instead of what they NEED to hear.

Don,

You hit the nail on the head!

Jean

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

observer — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 20:30:16 -0000

MishkaZena,

I wanted to respond to why someone's hiding behind an anonymous name. I can't speak for that person, but I can speak for myself. After the verbal violence that has occurred in the past several months (calling people acolytes, minions, etc, as well as other insults; threatening people's jobs, shredding people's reputations, etc), there is no way in hell I'm using my real name online. I'd like to keep my job and reputation, thankyouverymuch. Anyone who does now is brave or nuts, maybe both, in my opinion.

And what's wrong with anonymity, if one sticks to issues, principles, ideas, and arguments without personal attacks?

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Mishkazena — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:39:04 -0000

Anon,

We will need to disagree here. Surely we can disagree without beating up each other, right? We are adults. :)

Jack Barr did the right thing. He stepped forward and apologized for his behavior. He also shared his very painful story which touches me very deeply.

By the way, why are you hiding behind an anonymous name? Wouldn't it be better if we all use our real names and carry a constructive dialogue, including feedback, without this ridiculous attacks? If we attack others because we cannot handle constructive feedback, how can we move forward? We are stuck in one place... exactly where AGBell system wants us.

We need to hear feedback, both the positives and not so postives, to help us evolve, learn, and make progresses. :)

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

In Reponse to Mishkazena — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 12:38:44 -0000

Mischkazena,
Again you keep bringing up your past involvement like that is the reality of today. DBC has accomplished a lot without you and the others being part of the core group. Is your jealously part of the issue of continuously bringing up why you left? DBC is continuing without you. Apparently that bothers you because you keep bringing it up.

Move on. . If you have nothing good or positive to say, then say nothing. If you have personal issues with people, then work this out face to face. Stop hiding behind a blog or a comment.

Oh and by the way, because Jack blogs and vlogs about DBC, does not in any way shape or form make him an "official" representative of DBC. That is a ridiculous comment. That means if I am member of a political party and blog about a presidential candidate ,that I become an "official" representative. Come on....

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

DrDonG — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 12:37:53 -0000

Parent --

Just curious -- you didn't identify yourself as a Hearing parent or as a Deaf parent....

Richard --

You are an example of why we are having problems -- you tell parents what they WANT to hear instead of what they NEED to hear.

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Anonymous — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:12:27 -0000

MZ,

Your comparison to Obama's minister making comments
is absurd. Jack was simply using symbolism to make
the point that the philosophy of Oralism is wrong. He went
a little overboard and used symbolism that people
misinterpreted.

What Jack did is only an innocent mistake in not expressing
himself the way he intended. He did nothing wrong.

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Richard Roehm — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:04:10 -0000

If you see it that way thats fine but I happen to be the deaf beacon that hearing people would rather listen to. If i make an interpretation of something, the hearing folks will take it in easily.

Jack is the one that has to own up to his action. DBC has to own up to keeping Jack among them.

In the past 3 weeks at the fair, I been showing the best face of the deaf community to the hearing people. What has the deaf community been doing? Making clowns out of themselves with these silly blunders like what this blog is talking about.

Richard

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

a parent — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 09:08:34 -0000

As a parent of deaf children, I found the news of this video disgusting. It is one more example of how Deafhood seems to be more self absorbed and self involved than interested in helping deaf babies. It's about their own psychological past, their own anger and their own hatred. I certainly see this as a hate video, and I'm sure other parents agree. I can't foresee any parent hearing about it or seeing it who won't feel great distaste for any organization whose friends do that sort of thing. We want to stay far, far away from that sort of thing. I'm raising my deaf babies to live contentedly in the world, not angrily apart from society.

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Trying Hard to Understand — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 04:14:27 -0000

One of my favorite Jack Barr videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

No, DBC did NOT let Jack interpret in Milwaukee

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

DrDonG — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 02:17:28 -0000

Richard --

Was Jack's vlog "hate speech"? That's debatable -- I say no, it was a misguided attempt at symbolic expression. But it was not on behalf of DBC -- it was all Jack. So, you're wrong. Equating Jack's action as representative of DBC as a whole is not appropriate, just as it would not be appropriate for me to say your comments in the blogosphere are representative of AGB's intents. When AGB does something, I will attribute intent appropriately to them, when YOU do something, I will place the proper attribution to YOU.

MZ -- I think teaching is more enjoyable too. :-)

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Mishkazena — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 01:11:12 -0000

Don, a psychologist can be a tough job. I am biased, but I think teaching at a university is more enjoyable. :)

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Mishkazena — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 01:09:42 -0000

AGBell Association has its own PR dept which has been doing a fab job. Why don't you give a donation to DBC since you are obviously a strong supporter? I've already resigned from DBC for these several issues I've pointed out. As far as I know, these issues remain the same, hence leading to the resignation of yet another DBC member. Regardless how you may not like these issues, however, these are based on the experiences of former DBC members. Truth sometimes isn't pretty. As former core members we also witnessed first hand how deafhood was practiced deep inside, so yes we do know what we are talking about.

Comparing me to Jack is comparing oranges and apples. Jack is the official representative of DBC at some capacity and actively showed vlogs for DBC few times. "Also, the DBC Wisconsin chapter under the excellent leadership of Jack Barr is doing a lot of ground work. http://www.ellasflashlight.... " Unlike him, I don't have a relationship with DBC when I covered DBC in the recent weeks.

When Obama's minister made these remarks, Obama was very quick to disassociate himself from that minister, condemning these statements. Even though the minister was not speaking for Obama, Obama knows about the association factor very significant in influencing the public opinion. I believe McCain did a similar thing recently.

No, Jack is under no obligation to make an apology, nor is DBC. However, that may affect the outlook of DBC through the eyes of hearing parents of oral deaf babies and children. It's entirely up to DBC how to operate its public relations.

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Richard Roehm — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 01:06:18 -0000

Jack Barr’s Latest Videoblog Brings DBC Down To The Levels Of Hate Groups

Richard

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Diane — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 00:32:58 -0000

Anon --- if you draw or make a sign of the swastikas in your vlog or elsewhere. You would have been arrested for this. It is a serious hate crime. I may be ridiculous but I take this seriously here. It has affected affected many people's family members who survived the holocaust. Diane

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

DrDonG — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 00:02:13 -0000

Anon,

I agree with you, it was symbolism, and it is technically not wrong. But it was offensive to many, and he can apologize for offending people. But you're right, he doesn't HAVE to -- other people have made offensive materials in the name of making a point, and they don't apologize for it....

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

DrDonG — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:58:50 -0000

Brance,

Yes, I'm sure many other people also contacted Jack asking him to pull the video. He made the right decision to do so, and like you, I respect him for doing the right thing. It was not well-thought out, what he did. I hope he makes a public apology for it so we can all move on and DBC can get back to doing their work.

A watchdog -- I don't know. We will have to see what develops with DBC. I still maintain that they did nothing technically wrong, and that it is certain people who are intentionally trying to stir up hate or anger at DBC to bring it down.

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

DrDonG — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:54:26 -0000

MZ --

Actually, I wasn't a very good School Psychologist, which is why I'm no longer in that field. But I understand what you're saying -- yes, it is human nature to associate Jack with DBC, but the fact is, he made the vlog as a personal vlogger, just like you and me, NOT as a representative of DBC. It is like the Senator who gets caught in possession of child pornography -- that was his own wrongdoing, but in no way should we then disband the Senate because of the wrong actions of one member of the Senate.

Re: On Freedom of Speech, Jack Barr & AGB

Anonymous — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:49:47 -0000

diane,

You're being ridiculous. Jack was only attempting to use
symbolism to convey a message

He did NOTHING wrong, and he certainly does NOT need
to apologize to anyone.